Interview with United Wardrobe co-founder Thijs Verheul
By StartHub Wageningen
‘Vinted buys second-hand clothing platform United Wardrobe’ - this was one of the headlines in the national newspapers in the Netherlands. United Wardrobe, founded by two Wageningen University bachelor students, grew in six years from an idea, few people believed in, to a large impactful company with more than 4 million customers in the Netherlands, Belgium and France. The StartHub student board went to United wardrobe, an alumni startup of StartHub, for an interview with Thijs Verheul. Why did he sell the company, what made him be or become an entrepreneur and how did he combine it with his studies? These are just some of the questions that came across. We started with a small tour through their office. Well, office? If a place with a ping pong table, a bar and a vibe you expect to see at an innovative, impactful and young company is considered an “office” then, yes.
You started United Wardrobe during your bachelor studies in Wageningen, could you tell us a bit about your background?
"I was 18 years old when I finished high school, I started studying law here in Utrecht. Why I went studying law? Well, actually I had no idea, people who study law make quite some money and a friend of mine was going to study it. I quit after one day during my fist lecture and after some tears of my mom, 4 months of working in the window cleaning company of my father and half a year of being a ski teacher I started studying again; Business and Consumer Studies in Wageningen. I started in Wageningen because again some friends were going to study there. This time I decided to join a student association. I went on the introduction camp of the student association, thinking it was a ‘nice get to know each other camp’, which was not the case. I decided to quit at day two.”
““Entrepreneurship is like professional sports” ”
What is in your eyes the reason for the success of United Wardrobe?
“I think that the success of United Wardrobe is first of all due to some luck, but also because of the fact that three elements came together in our team, a hippie, a hustler and a hacker. In my opinion, it is necessary for a successful startup to have those three elements. The hippie is the person with the long term vision, in our case this was Sjuul, one of the founders of United Wardrobe as well. Whether you are a second-hand clothing platform, a seed breeder or you want to have a tractor that sprays grain very far. You need someone that really visualises and believes in the idea you have. The hippie then needs someone to arrange everything, because they often find it difficult to translate their idea and vision into actual work, the hustler. Within United Wardrobe I was the hustler, I really enjoy arranging things quickly and really live in the present. Why? Well today you need to make orders, today we need to make deals, today you can go viral. But what happens in three weeks? No idea. Therefore I am also sure that if I had formed a team with someone just like me, we would have a miserably failed bankrupt company in three weeks. Eventually you also need a hacker, the one who really builds the product, platform or service. Moreover, I believe that entrepreneurship is nature and not nurture. You can’t learn someone to become an entrepreneur, but you can accompany someone or send them into the right direction.”
Cool, thanks for sharing your vision on how a successful startup team looks like! You said that you believe that entrepreneurship is nature and not nurture, what do you then think of StartHub, where we give entrepreneurship education and support student entrepreneurs?
“It is nice and good that entrepreneurship is offered in Wageningen, but you should not expect someone without affinity for entrepreneurship to become a real one. However, Wageningen is a real beta/scientific university so therefore I think entrepreneurship or studies like Business and Consumer Studies have a high added value. I especially support the fact that you give young entrepreneurs an advantageous loan and lead them into the right direction, but with a good entrepreneurial team you should be able to arrange everything yourself.“
Thanks for these insights! Let’s go back to your journey. You mentioned you started studying Business and Consumer Studies in Wageningen and we are wondering how you proceeded.
“During my studies I met Sjuul Berden, the “Hippie” of United Wardrobe. He had the idea of beginning a second-hand clothing platform based on experience of his three sisters. One lived in Berlin, one in New York and with Christmas they all came together. When they came together, they always exchanged second-hand clothes, which they bought at marketplaces or vintage shops. There was no central and safe place to exchange second-hand clothing yet and Sjuul wanted to start such a place. He asked me to build this together and at first I was sceptical. You already have Facebook groups or marketplaces and it is kind of a weird idea. Four months long, he kept asking me until I finally said yes. Even though it took me four months to say yes to the idea, I went for it for 100 percent. We created a logo and our name, looked for a designer and someone for the IT and after 14 evenings in the library of the university the design of our platform was finished. At the beginning, Wageningen was very supportive for example by offering a student loan, a small loan with very beneficial circumstances.“
That seems quite busy, setting up your own company and at the same time doing your studies, how did you combine these two aspects?
“Haha, well it was not easy, I really wanted to finish my bachelor and I wanted to grow United wardrobe to the max. Finding a balance came with some struggles but eventually I did finish my bachelor.”
“‘’As an entrepreneur you are a bit of a cowboy in the wild west’’”
And if you look back now, would you start again during your studies with your own startup?
“It is very easy to be wise in hindsight, because it all worked out. We grew very fast in the Netherlands, spread to other countries and now sold the company to Vinted which made me financially independent. I am very aware of the fact that I also had a lot of luck with my team and the market developments. I went home early during parties, hardly drank, ate healthy and worked very much and hard. In my opinion, a startup that really wants to achieve the top is like professional sports. You see a lot of young startups that think it is nice to have a startup, which is true, but there is also a backside. At the front it looks cool, an office in Utrecht with a Ping-Pong table and a bar, but in the back you also have things like (financial) risks, burn-outs and so on. As an entrepreneur you are a bit of a cowboy in the wild west, especially in our sector. It should all just work out”
I can hear that you really wanted to grow and reach the maximum with United Wardrobe, but had to sacrifice quite a bit to achieve this. What was your main motivation then?
“Look, I could lie and say it was all about making a sustainable impact. Yes, I found it really, really cool that we created a booming second-hand clothing market and thereby reduced fast fashion. This definitely played a part in my motivation. However, I also think becoming financially independent and reaching a goal were part of my main motivation.”
“Moreover, it is important to set big goals. One of the goals was running 10,000 orders in 24 hours. Last May, we achieved this goal and we immortalised it on our bodies with a tattoo. If my next company becomes a unicorn, another tattoo will be added to this one”
You were talking about sustainable impact, how do you view and manage your impact? How do you keep an eye on this and work towards it, and how would you inspire others to do so?
“We didn’t really look after the amount of profit we made, we did look to the amount of clothes that were transferred via our platform. This was because of two reasons. First of all, as a startup you don’t really need to make profit and the more clothes we trade, the more impact we create. That’s also why we for example placed cheaper clothes above more expensive ones.”
And now that you sold United Wardrobe to Vinted, what are your future plans?
“A lot of things… Right now I am still living in my student home together with my brother, so I am going to buy a house. I will also keep on working on the transfer of United Wardrobe to Vinted. Furthermore, I will get some rest by carp fishing; a hobby of mine I really enjoy. Thereafter I would like to set up a new company, so if everything goes right you will all have a new app on your phone in a few years.”
You probably are not going to tell what kind of app right?
“Haha, I actually told it to too many people already, so let’s keep it a secret.”
Well, thanks a lot for the interview! Do you maybe have a final message you would like to give to our students?
“What I want to give as a final message? The most important thing is that you find out who you are and what you want. Do you want to start doing business at the highest level? Do you want to bring in investment round after investment round? Maybe you want to sell your business for a lot of money or stay in your company very long or whatever. Then you need to have a very good team and also be very lucky. It is actually not always fun. You need to work hard, miss parties, and sometimes even family events. That's not fun, but it’s necessary if you want to have a chance to reach the top. That is easy for me to say, because it all worked out. People often say that success is a choice - but of course it isn't! Just find out who you are and what you want. If you don't know, just try out a lot of thing and you will find out automatically.”